Template talk:JPSets

Set 2

Maybe instead of separating by attribute and listing the numbers, simply list the name in numerical order, with the attribute icon (see Template:AttIcon) next to it?KrytenKoro (talk) 15:36, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Set 7

Is Ansem Illustrated Ver. really not a Premium or Event medal?KrytenKoro (talk) 13:57, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

If the categories on his medal page are correct, he is a Limited/Premium medal. -Rikki21 15:00, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Ansem Illustrated and Riku Illustrated are the Premium medals released in this set. I did try to ensure the Limited/Premium category page is correct to list all Premium medals. It can be used as an accurate guide for all medals up to Set 8 as pages do not exist at this time for the ones from Set 9. Seiki 16:30, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Set 8

Not sure if set 7 or 8

Not sure if set 8 or 9

535-536 Riku Child Ver.
537-538 Kairi Child Ver.

Also not sure which are event medals.KrytenKoro (talk) 07:41, 3 June 2016 (PDT)

Riku & Kairi are event medals from the second Children's Day Event which happened starting 5/2 making them part of Set 9.

Ansem the Wise, Kairi & Selphie Uniform ver. were released on April 1st. They are not event medals.

Flowbermeow & Child Sora are the event medals for Set 8. Unless you count Nick & Judy being given via Lux Rankings as opposed to draw medals as events. Seiki 12:29, 4 June 2016 (PDT)

I believe the definition being used is whether they go into the permanent draw pool or not.KrytenKoro (talk) 23:51, 4 June 2016 (PDT)

How are sets formed exactly, is it per month? Set 8 contains three release cycles so that can't be it. --ShardofTruth (talk) 12:04, 5 June 2016 (PDT)

It is possible for 3 release cycles to occur within a 30 day period depending on when those cycles release and how the calendar falls. The 3 releases in question happened on April 1st, 15th, & 28th. As for Nick & Judy, they were not added to the permanent draw pool in Japan. If that is the given definition, then they qualify as event medals. Seiki 21:43, 5 June 2016 (PDT)

Set 9

Not sure if set 8 or 9

535-536 Riku Child Ver.
537-538 Kairi Child Ver.

They are part of Set 9 as they were released on 5/2. Seiki 12:31, 4 June 2016 (PDT)

Also, not sure which all medals on the template are event medals.KrytenKoro (talk) 06:28, 6 June 2016 (PDT)

Child Riku, Child Kairi, Darkside, Terra/Ven/Aqua, & Original Goofy are all the event medals. Seiki 11:16, 6 June 2016 (PDT)

Illustrated Sephiroth and Kairi are in the permanent pool?KrytenKoro (talk) 12:03, 6 June 2016 (PDT)

They're premium medals. They're not permanent but they aren't event at all. If they are to be given the gold lettering like event medals, then the same should be done for all premiums. Although if we were to distinguish them with a color, I'd feel it best they get a different one to define them as premiums.Seiki 23:01, 7 June 2016 (PDT)

I don't get the distinction, but I thought the whole point of distinguishing these was to point out which were limited time and which were permanent. Can you clarify?KrytenKoro (talk) 05:25, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Event medals are distributed via actual events and are called Events. These are distributed via unusual ways such as how Snow White & Seven Dwarves recently was in the NA version (Drops from very specific limited time missions) or how Timeless River Mickey was distributed; which was as a reward for completing the Proud Quests. These medals are not at all part of the pool and never will be. In fact, aside from a very select few, most of these cannot be bought with Jewels at all.

Premium medals are different however. They are distributed within the pool and nowhere else much like normal medals. However they are much rarer than normal medals and only available from the 10 medal deal. To get one, you must spend an absurd amount of Jewels and mostly rely on luck. The only way to get a guaranteed one is in Japan is if you spend about 30,000 Jewels. If you fail to get it from the 10-Draw 10 times in a row, the 10th draw will give it to you out of pity. This guarantee does not exist in the NA version. These are only available for one week then never again, similar to Event Medals, but they are still part of the draw pool, albeit temporarily. These medals are all medals listed here under the Limited Medals category. They are named in-game as Limited/Premium medals and are not defined as Event medals by the game as it is not an event but a chance for a rare and powerful medal during the weekly draw. Seiki 13:10, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

I was not aware the game made any internal distinction between types of Medals. Can you direct me where to look?

In any case, I don't think we're addressing the larger point -- while the earlier draft of the navboxes may have actually called these medals "Event medals", this version does not -- the highlighting is just picking out Medals which are permanent versus those that are temporary. Can you help me understand why we would need to further differentiate these into Event vs. Limited Medals (or even Event vs. Common vs. Limited vs. Farmable Medals), and how we would communicate what each highlighting means to our readers? My own opinion is that this distinction would be better served on the individual medal articles.204.11.142.106 13:19, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Does all this even matter for the set template? Maybe we should have a permanent and temporary pool template instead. Event medals are only available during the events, premium medals are only in the draw pool for 1-2 weeks and some other medals like Jack Skellington are removed from the pool for different reasons. The release date date of any medal could be included in the infobox or on a set page and that's that. --ShardofTruth (talk) 13:30, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

As for in-game, it's typically found in the notices. I don't know Japanese but I have heard others claim terms like Limited/Premium come from the Japanese version when no such terms are present in NA. This is likely found in either the notices or names of the special drops for them. Otherwise, the Event medals are often distributed via missions in the "Event" tab on the game menu. Notices will call the methods to obtain them as "Events" in the notices as well; however the medals themselves aren't called anything more than medals. I do agree the distinction is better served in the individual medal pages, my main point is that if the creator/designer of the newer navbox were to change the coloring for Premium medals, it would have to be done so for ALL premium medals as Set 3 has Sephiroth with normal colors as does Set 4 with Pooh & Piglett and Cloud Illus ver. Set 8 has Boss Marluxia, Illus. Ventus, & Illus. Terra using normal medal colors. Yet, this issue has only come up in regards to Set 9's Illus. Kairi & Sephiroth. While on the subject, I feel different colors are strange altogether and aren't clear to all as a Limited vs Permanent thing unless you know the medals before hand and know that they are. Frankly, I thought gold stood solely for Event and this confusion is part of what lead to this discussion in the first place. Especially since the original question asked were which medals are event medals and Premium medals are not Event medals. I prefer the older style that lists them by type as opposed to all together in numerical order. Also, on the medal page, I find it a bit of an eye-sore to have all of the templates there at the bottom as it takes up over half the page with templates alone. Perhaps if they were collapsible it would be better, but as is, I find the table that directed to the categories for each set to be much more visually pleasing. Seiki 14:00, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

I'm trying to convert the prior templates to a more sleek feel -- organizing them by type takes up almost three times the space -- and am going on what were called event medals in the previous templates. If I've missed any temporary medals, please correct them. I've put in a request to have the collapsible class added, so we're waiting on Dciuch, but having just links to the categories looks...unaesthetic, and comes off as "bare minimum coding" to me. Having them all present in the navboxes, especially once those are finished being reformatted and are collapsible, will more closely replicate the album than the alphabetized categories would, and requires less clicking for the reader.KrytenKoro (talk) 14:31, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Is there any particular reason we don't have the wikipedia style Navbox template? That navbox is much more customization and it should be able to collapse. We'd need to install the Module:Navbox for it to work, but it should be simple to just import both of them (though it seems only Admins can import on the wiki). I don't really understand the need for the id# either, tbh. It just seems to clutter the navboxes to include them since their album ID# is on individual medal pages anyway. -Rikki21 14:56, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Something like this. Compact, able to collapse it. We'd be able to color the premium/event medals if we decide to, too. Instead of having a million navbars, we'd only need a few. -Rikki21 15:33, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Alternatively, we could use mouse-over text to say whether it's an event or premium medal. Or both color and mouse-over. That way, users can simply mouse-over the different color'd links and see that it's an event/premium medal. I don't think it'll work on mobile, but that's not a reason not to have it. As long as it doesn't completely break the page on mobile, it should be fine. -Rikki21 15:52, 8 June 2016 (PDT)

Definitely agree on the mouseover, but as far as organizing by attribute instead of number, we don't have anywhere else on the wiki organizing by number -- not even a category or table page -- and the number is the biggest part of what's dividing the sets, and the medals are already sorted by attribute in the respective categories. If we're using a mouseover to highlight event/premium vs. normal, why don't we use the font color to highlight attribute, and remove the symbols as well?

Collapsible is already coded into the new-form navboxes, we just need to get the wikicode updated to make it work. I'm not really sure how the wikipedia version is "more open to customization" -- we're already designing the navboxes using basic coding, rather than routing them through another template, so we can make them look however we want.

I'm agreeable to removing the ID, if we're keeping them in numerical order -- the biggest issue I had that lead me to reorganize them this way was because it was difficult to tell what the gaps in my album were. Removing the IDs will make it slightly more difficult for a reader to pinpoint the gap, but still doable.

If the categories aren't acceptable for organizing by attribute, I'd like to propose four alternatives:

Sort the categories by medal number. This will only work for the English number, or Japanese number in absense of English number -- readers trying to identify a medal in the Japanese game that has already been localized will be out of luck, and since eventually all medals will be released in English, it will be totally useless to them.
Re-examine whether "sets" are even a meaningful concept -- each set already works in a wave of smaller releases (we have more than one album expansion per "set"), and it may be more prudent to simply organize by those, not by month.
Replace the navboxes on the Medal page with a central directory of Medals, with each column sortable so a reader can search by different parameters. We'd probably only have basic stats like Name, Image, ID, Attributes, and Special Attack, tho, not any of the deeper stats like Strength or Damage.
Code the navboxes to be able to flip between both versions. I believe there is a way to do this kind of tab/collapsible hybrid without it standing out like tabs do, but I'd have to research the code.

I really think it's important to have some way of organizing the medals by number, whether we do that in the navboxes or elsewhere.KrytenKoro (talk) 06:02, 9 June 2016 (PDT)

How's this? Much tighter, and the colored text both mirrors how attributes are displayed in-game (PSM within UR), and allows the reader to quickly pick out medals by one attribute alone, accomplishing the goal of organizing them by attribute. It also has mouseover text labeling the Limited and Event Medals (though I am starting to think we should instead use some sort of superscript, in case readers don't realize they need to mouseover). See this for such a design.

Also, now that I understand Rikki's proposal better, I also agree with a full-album navbox, instead of one for each set.KrytenKoro (talk) 06:26, 9 June 2016 (PDT)

Yes, I agree that keeping them in order of ID in the navbox is a good idea if we remove the numbers. As to this navbox vs wikipedia... I think the wikipedia navbox is easier to edit and customize, but your mileage may vary. I greatly prefer the wikipedia navbox.

My reasoning to have only a few navboxes instead of a million, is that if I'm just browsing I would be able to view all the medals from Wakkas page and every other medal page, just from the navbox. I wouldn't be forced to go looking all around the wiki for them. To that end, a central directory of medals is a great idea and there's no reason not to have one with a navbox. Obviously, on the Medal page itself we'd have the directory and not the navboxes, but the navboxes are great to have on the individual medal pages especially to get around.

Honestly, I had to go to the url of Set6 where I found myself, and enter 1-10 to view all the sets that we have on the wiki, which is a pain. (In hindsight I could have gone to the Medal page, but I didn't think of that at the time). So, having a navbox with all the sets is better in my opinion, especially since we can make it compact. I like the draft a lot, too. The way they're boxed in to show upright or reverse medals is very nice. Can we do both mouseover and superscript? Are you thinking just letters like: Beast WD Ver.^E or the entire word? Letters would be more compact, of course.

As for the sets themselves...I kind of understand why we have them, but it just seems somewhat arbitrary since as you pointed out it may mean different things. Personally, I think a set is one released all together, not released here and there over the course of month or two. -Rikki21 11:32, 9 June 2016 (PDT)

We can do both superscript and mouseover -- my only concern is that when you mouseover a normal link, you get that article's name, so if we do the full word and not just the superscript, it may confuse readers. I really like the draft2 that I posted, and I encourage everyone to work to fill it out.KrytenKoro (talk) 13:03, 9 June 2016 (PDT)